470: How Working as Ina Garten’s Assistant Kicked Off Lidey Heuck’s Career as a Food Creator and Cookbook Author

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Emily Walker: Hey, this is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team, and you are listening to the Food Blogger Pro podcast. This week on the podcast, Bjork is interviewing Lydie Heuck, who you might know from her food blog, Lidey Likes, her new cookbook Cooking in Real Life, her time on the Magnolia Network Show, The Lost Kitchen or her years spent as Ina Garten’s assistant. Lydie’s first job out of college was actually as Ina Garten’s assistant, and she spent seven years working as part of the Barefoot Contessa team before breaking off to grow her own career as a food creator.

In this interview, she shares more about her experiences working at Barefoot Contessa, how she balances creating content for different platforms, because right now she obviously has her blog, her recent cookbook, and she’s also a recipe contributor for New York Times Cooking. And she also chats more about why she might want to open a brick and mortar shop in the future, and what she envisions the future of her career in food looking like. Bjork and Lidey also chat about how she balances sharing her personal life on social media and how she avoids the trap in the food space. It’s a really fun interview. I loved editing it and listening to it, and I’m sure you will enjoy listening to it too. So without further ado, I’ll let Bjork take it away.

Bjork Ostrom: Lidey, welcome to the podcast.

Lidey Heuck: Thank you so much for having me.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, we’re going to be covering a lot of different things today because you have a lot of different experiences and sometimes we have conversations with people who are like, “Hey, I just started publishing stuff online and then realize there was an audience here, and so I decided to build it.” Other times we talked to people who are really strategic and they go about like, “Hey, I knew that this is what I wanted to do. This is exactly what I wanted to do, and I went after it and I built it.” And I’m curious to know what that was like for you because you had a lot of experience in the world of food content creation, working with creators, working with platforms, working with publications. And while you were doing that, were you always kind of thinking through a plan of what it might look like for you to venture out on your own and create your own thing?

Lidey Heuck: I did start to think about what I wanted to do specifically and on my own eventually, but really I fell into the food world and I kind of fell into the world of being a creator and being a recipe developer. It wasn’t something that I was even familiar with to be honest when I got started. My first job out of college was working for Ina Garten, which was a pretty incredible first job. And I really was just her assistant, and so I was involved in some of what she was doing with cookbooks and there was some recipe testing involved, but it really started out as just a social media role and something that I thought would be fun to try and a creative job out of college, but I wasn’t really focused on being in the food world at that time. I just thought I should do something fun because eventually I’ll have to get a real job and buckle down. And so-

Bjork Ostrom: How did you come across that job? What did it look like to-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: Was it like a posting, a job posting or friend of a friend?

Lidey Heuck: It’s funny. It was through a friend of a friend essentially, but at the same time that I got in touch with Ina, I basically, long story short, wrote her a letter because I had always loved her and always loved her show. And so I’ve grown up with Barefoot Contessa and I knew that I had this third degree connection to her that was a total long shot. But I thought I just loved that she had built her own business and she sort of created her own world of work that seemed really fun and enticing, and there was something about it that really drew me in. Even at 21, there was something just, I don’t know, something about the energy of what she was doing that appealed to me, and I wasn’t sure exactly what it was, but it seemed worth investigating and worth taking a chance to see if she would meet with me.

And so I wrote her this letter sort of introducing myself, and thankfully I was able to get it to her. And it just so happened at the same time, she had put out an ad in the local paper looking for someone to help with social media. So there was a job posting. I just didn’t know about it. And so it was very fortunate timing and it ended up changing the course of my career. So I’m very grateful that I took that weird risk and saw that was a job that I could pursue.

Bjork Ostrom: What I love about that is, and I think there’s so many examples of this in life where there’s not a listing that you were responding. It’s not like you waited for something to happen, you made something happen. And I think so many of us could take inspiration from that to think, what am I inspired by? What am I drawn to? What do I want and how do I get after it? Versus there’s not a job posting, and in this case, technically there was, but you didn’t know about it. But to get after it and to do so in a really creative way. Another, this is completely unrelated, and I think about it in this context often where my friend worked for the professional baseball team in Minnesota Twins here in Minnesota, and he talks about somebody who really wanted a job at the Twins. She sent in her resume, printed on a cake.

And so everybody gathered around and they’re like… But it’s just this approach of creativity around the pursuit of a career or a job. And it sounds like you did that, and like you said, it was a life-changing experience. In what ways was it life-changing? What did that…. It was seven years, right? So what did those seven years do for you in terms of crafting your idea of the world or what you could build or talk to me about what that was like?

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, sure. And first, just to your last point about the cake, which is amazing and the resume, I just want to add because I think it’s helpful that when I reached out to Ina, I didn’t just say, “Can I work for you?” I said, “Here’s what I could bring to the table. Here’s what I could do to help you.” And I think if you are taking a non-traditional approach to trying to get a job or get an in somewhere, I think figuring out what you can offer and what problem you can solve for them is a huge advantage because it helps solve a problem for them rather than adding something to their, to-do list of like, “Oh, this person needs something for me,” is sort of flipping that around. So that was-

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, that’s awesome.

Lidey Heuck: … one thing that I learned. But I learned so much. I was a beginning cook at that point and I liked to cook. And so the first thing I really learned from her was the basics of what makes a good dish, how to season food, and then how to think about a recipe and a composed dish as something that someone’s going to recreate at home. And how a recipe for home cook differed from a dish that you would eat in a restaurant. And through the years that I worked for Ina, my role sort of grew and evolved, and I got a lot more involved with the recipe side of things. And so just being up close with her philosophy on recipe writing and cookbooks and really making sure that these recipes are tools for cooks of all levels and that they’re really well tested. I think just through the repetition of testing Ina’s recipes and seeing her process, it just sort of stuck and it became something that I thought was a fun challenge.

The idea of taking a recipe idea or a dish and kind of starting from scratch and then honing it and fine tuning it until it was concise, clear and perfected was a process that, I don’t know, I just started to really enjoy. And I think working for Ina was an amazing start to my career, but at the same time, I also felt like, well, where do I go from here? How do I develop my own voice or what are my next steps after working for someone who’s so good at this, who’s done it for so many years? It was a little daunting. And I just started on nights and during the weekend I started playing around with my own recipes and just exploring my own voice. And thankfully, Ina was incredibly supportive and really wanted me to pursue that and was helpful in helping me figure out what kind of food did I like and helping me with my initial recipes.

And she was eager to help connect me with people to figure out what my next step could be. So it definitely helped to have someone who was really a mentor and really encouraging. But I also think that just the way that she followed her own voice, and there are so many, and increasingly, this year there are so many cookbooks coming out. And I think one thing that I always admired and that I learned from Ina is to just stay true to who you are and don’t be kind of influenced too much by what other people are doing.

And I think that that is something that’s important to keep in mind just because we are in this incredibly crowded food space, and I think it can sometimes be a little intimidating. So that was another lesson I learned from her was just keep your eye on the prize and what you want and who you are and what you’re doing, and don’t fall into the comparison game or be too influenced by what you see other people doing, because the more authentic the food is to you, the better it will be and the more it’ll resonate with people.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. How do you do that? I think in theory we all hear that and it’s like, “Yes, that makes sense.” Do you have any advice for practically how to not compare and despair?

Lidey Heuck: One thing I do, and this is a tough one because I also want to support my friends and people who I’ve gotten to know who are in the space. I don’t want to just unfollow people, but I try on social media to follow a mix of accounts and I follow a lot of home design and travel. Things that are sort of outside food so that I’m constantly getting inspiration from other things and I’m not feeling like I’m just doom scrolling and seeing what everyone else is doing. I think it’s a very human impulse to compare and feel competitive. And I think also just being excited about the projects you’re working on and finding things to work on that you can really focus your energy on helps,. Because if you’re really engaged in something, you’re kind of less likely to start looking around and feeling like what you’re doing isn’t good enough.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s great. So this is kind of a example of that played out accidentally in real life. So my wife Lindsay, she has a food and recipe site, Pinch of Yum.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, of course.

Bjork Ostrom: So Instagram account connected with that. She also has then a personal Instagram account with 40 friends and is really protective of that, of this is just friends. But then she started this snack review show with a friend of ours and it’s like, “Here’s a a new version of Oreos,” and they’ll try it and rate it. But just the other night she was messaging with him, our friend, his name’s Nate, the account’s called Snackdive. And she was like, “I love the Snackdive Discover page,” because it’s like they have a shared login. And so the algorithm is a little bit innate and a little bit of Lindsay. But it’s like sports highlights and she’s just like, “It’s so refreshing to have a rollerblading fail video and a top-

Lidey Heuck: Totally.

Bjork Ostrom: … 10 dunks video.“ And she’s like, ”Please just don’t watch any food content Nate. Just keep this what it is.”

Lidey Heuck: Just pure.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, purely random. But there’s something to be said about that where for whatever reason to get outside of really it’s like to get outside of the zone of work for you or creativity for you into other areas is really refreshing. And not that you never want to explore what anybody else is doing because that can also be inspiring. But maybe almost to name that and say, “Okay, for a half an hour I’m going to spend some time watching food videos to understand it,” versus being forced into it in a time where you’re maybe not in the mode of working. And that’s-

Lidey Heuck: Totally.

Bjork Ostrom: … I think part of what feels off with it is you get kind of put into work mode when maybe you’re not in work mode or you’re in work mode, but you want to be creatively inspired as opposed to triggered to be like, “I got to be better,” or whatever it is. All those feelings that we feel when we come up against that.

Lidey Heuck: Totally. I also think that the idea of starting a little side project, like the snack idea for example, something that feels connected to to Pinch of Yum because it’s food but is separate and feels, you feel freer to have fun with it and explore.

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, 100%, that’s what it is.

Lidey Heuck: Anyone who’s a food creator kind of gets to this point where you’re sort of known for what you’re known for, and you want to give the people who are following you the recipes that they love and the content that they love. But there’s pressure around that and it starts to feel like work. I mean, it is work, but you’ve taken this thing presumably that you love to do and you’ve turned it into your job. And I think inevitably there’s a shift that happens. So I think finding little outlets, whether it’s reviewing snacks or trying a new skill that is not something that is really in your wheelhouse. I don’t know that I have done this, and so I’m not feeling inspired to do something myself. But just to find that something that’s pure joy, again without the pressure of it being a primary part of your business, I think is actually hugely helpful.

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, you so accurately described what they are doing with that, and it’s not like they don’t ever want it to become a thing, but Nate and Lindsay are both very intentional to say, “This is fun.” The primary purpose of this is fun. And I got a text from somebody kind of an acquaintance the other day and he’s like, “Oh, this is interesting.” What’s the strategy with this? It was like, “There isn’t one, it’s just this-”

Lidey Heuck: That’s the other thing. I feel like we get so bogged down in strategy and the algorithm and how is this performing and how is that performing? And I’ve started working with a team to help me with some of my social stuff, and they always say the things that you don’t think about are the ones that are going to do really well. Or the things that are often tough and are really you and feel really spontaneous or something are the things that really resonate with people. So in some ways, thinking less and just having fun, I feel like that content ends up succeeding in a way that the things that you overanalyze to death might not. So it’s almost just turning things around and trying the complete other strategy could help.

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, totally. So I’m interested to hear coming out of the experiences that you had working with Ina, like you were on The Lost Kitchen, so a Magnolia network show, working for New York Times cooking. How did all of those inform what you wanted to be doing as a creator because you were kind of able to, if not actually do some of the things that you would do in those respective positions like working with Ina to do recipe development as an example, you were also able to see what it’s like to have some of those businesses. As you’ve moved forward building your business and building your following, how have you made decisions on what to do based on what you observed or what you did?

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I think every experience that you have professionally helps kind of inform what you enjoy and what you don’t enjoy. And I think having sort of road tested some of these different experiences, I also did a little bit of private chefing for a family. I’ve done some cooking classes. I’ve sort of dipped my toe into different areas of food, and I think, I wish I could say that I know exactly what I want to do with the rest of my life after all these experiences. But I think one thing that they all have showed me is I really enjoy interacting with people and having something that has a physical manifestation. I think one challenge with creating content online and sharing content online does feel somewhat of a disconnect from the people who follow you. And also it just feels, I don’t know, for me, having this physical cookbook that I’ve now written feels gratifying in a way that I feel like I was missing.

And similarly, I think having worked at The Lost Kitchen for a season, I’m not sure that I want to have a restaurant one day, but I love the idea of having a place, having something that is this physical manifestation of the thing that I’m working on and the food that I love and a place for people to come together, something that’s to make a pun on the book, in real life is a big element for me. And I think what’s great about sharing content online is you can reach so many more people and you can just have a much broader audience than you’d be able to have if you just had a small food business wherever you live. But I think for me, my goal one day is to be able to combine the two and have something that’s a brick and mortar in addition to online content.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, so you talk about that on the book, Cooking In Real Life, this idea of how do you create doable, practical recipes that you’re actually going to sit down and make. And for you saying, “Hey, that’s actually an important variable,” within this is the human connection a physical thing as opposed to in the world of digital. We could potentially create something for a decade. And there’s a lot of scenarios where that could not go away, but it’s like it doesn’t exist in the same way that a physical thing does. Do you have a vision of what that looks like, what that pairing looks like? Or is it still pretty-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I have a lot of ideas, but my current idea is to have something that’s a store because I also really love lifestyle and home decor, and I think that goes hand in hand with food and entertaining. So I think something that kind of combines the two, maybe a cafe with a store with online presence, I think would just be a really… I don’t know, that excites me and sounds fun to me. And I’m often driven by what’s that thing that keeps popping into my head that sounds intriguing and exciting. So it’s a big project and it’s something that would take a lot of work. One of the nice things about creating content is you can really do a lot from your house with very little investment and you can get going. And so I think there’s this immediate ability to start and grow, but I think growing a business is something I haven’t totally tackled yet, but it’s also something that I am really excited about. So, unclear when the time is right, but we’ll see.

Bjork Ostrom: Yep. And how about with seeing the things that you’ve seen, the experiences that you’ve had, is there anything that getting into thinking and building your own following and where you want to be focusing your time, is there anything that you were like, “I’m definitely not going to do that.” Anything you’ve ruled out as maybe experiences that you had or saw other graders or people you worked with come up against and you’re like, “That’s really good for some people, but it’s not for me.”

Lidey Heuck: One constant thing that I feel like I’m coming up against, and I don’t know that I’ve totally figured out where I stand on it, but it’s the line between sharing your life and having some privacy. And I think my platforms are not so big at this point that I feel like the whole world is watching me, but I think as you continue to grow and you want to develop a connection to the people who are following you, it makes sense to share more of your life and day to day. And I think some people are really comfortable with that and good at that, and that feels like a very natural thing for them to do. But I sometimes feel unsure of how comfortable or where that line is for me.

And I also think continuing to grow my business right now, having an Instagram account and a website, everything is very tied to me and my name, and so I feel like there’s a limit to how much only I can do as one person. So I think figuring out a way to grow what I’m doing that might include other people or might be able to branch out and be more than just my name attached is very appealing to me because it allows there to be a little bit more distance between my everyday personal life and the business side of my life. Yeah,

Bjork Ostrom: It’s interesting. I feel like we talk about this a lot, one of the advantages with being personal is it kind of creates this quick connection. I think it’s potentially an easier follow for people if they like, “Hey, I know this-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, totally.

Bjork Ostrom: … is Lidey and I’m going to follow her because I want to.” It’s almost like more how we operate in the real world, which is somebody and you know somebody and you connect with them and then you-

Lidey Heuck: Want to hear what they think about things and you trust them. Totally. Yeah, and I think that’s great.

Bjork Ostrom: But the disadvantage to which you kind of speak to a little bit is in creating a brand, the disadvantages, maybe it can’t grow it in the same way in terms of how quickly you would grow it. But it’s almost like there’s a certain, for a lot of people, not everybody, but a desirability in that you are able to create a thing outside of yourself. And that is really great, especially if you like the idea of creating a thing. But you don’t necessarily want it to require you in order to run it all the time. Is that any of it as you process through a part of your consideration is building a thing that doesn’t require you to be the thing?

Lidey Heuck: I mean, I don’t mind being the thing, meaning that I enjoy doing video, I enjoy being on camera. I’m not, that part doesn’t make me uncomfortable, but I do feel like it limits because it’s just me a certain number of hours in the day and anyone who is a content creator knows that there’s this pressure to be doing more, more, more, more, more.

And I just feel like for a work-life balance, I think not only could I grow a business that was sort of broader and maybe more interesting if it had different perspectives, but I also think that it would just take a little bit of the pressure off of me. And I think what I first was saying is you look around and you see other influencers and creators who are sharing every detail of their life, and I think some people feel totally comfortable doing that. And I think I feel increasingly comfortable doing that the more I do it. But I just try to be cautious thinking ahead of what’s the end goal here and how can I grow in a way that is keeping up what I’ve built but also kind of growing in different directions than just my face in front of the camera.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. And thinking almost like looking ahead and saying, “If I continue to do this, what does that mean in five years, 10 years?” And not that it’s good or bad, but just thinking strategically and saying what is the end goal with the current direction or where’s the end destination? Not that there’s ever a real destination with it, I think is a great contemplation.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, it’s an interesting question too because I feel from the time that I started working in social media, which was 2013, so that’s a little over 10 years, the landscape has changed so dramatically and it makes it hard to envision what it will be like in another 10 years.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, totally.

Lidey Heuck: I guess at the same time, I don’t want to be too caught up in the future, but just every once in a while taking a step back and looking at what I’m doing big picture and what I want to be doing I think is important because otherwise it’s really easy to get caught up in the day-to-day work of recipe developing, recording video, making a post. And I think just trying to keep a little bit of perspective on, okay, what are my goals and what is this working towards? Rather than just focusing on feeding the machine, I think it just helps me kind of keep myself accountable in the big picture.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s great. Before we continue, let’s take a moment to hear from our sponsors. This episode is sponsored by Raptive. When it comes to monetizing a blog or a site, display ads are a fantastic passive way to generate income on the content you’re already producing. In fact, Raptive display ads are one of our biggest revenue generators at Pinch of Yum. They make up nearly 80% of our overall monthly income. Raptive, which is formerly Adthrive, is on a mission to empower independent creators like you. And to date, Raptive has paid out more than 2 billion to creators. Not only do they help creators generate ad revenue, they also offer creators many other benefits to help support them with their audience revenue and business goals. For example, Raptive creators get access to industry-leading tools like Topic, which helps creators discover opportunities to improve their content and plan the structure of their blog posts.

You also get access to resources on HR and recruiting SEO, email marketing, customized AB ad layout testing and more as a Raptive creator. You can learn more about Raptive’s Creator Levels and what’s all included in each level at raptive.com/creator-levels. Then when you’re ready to apply, head to raptive.com and click the apply now button. Working with an ad network has had a profound impact on the way Pinch of Yum monetizes our business, and by being a Raptive creator, you’re getting access to results-based solutions that can really impact the way your business runs and grows. Learn more at raptive.com. Thanks again to Raptive for sponsoring this episode. So we’ve talked about kind of big vision looking forward, how about, let’s zoom way in and just say today. What does a normal day or a week look like for you? You’re a contributor for New York Times cooking. You have your cookbook that you worked on, you have your site, your Instagram on a given day or a given week. What do things look like for you now?

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I mean, every week and every day is a little bit different, which is one of the things I love about what I do, and I also love the freedom to plan my weeks around what I have coming up and be flexible. A typical day, this is not a typical day because I’m in New York for an event, but a typical day, which let’s call this next Monday, this is what I’ll be doing. Because I’ve just got a batch of recipe assignments for New York Times cooking, so I’ve got about two weeks to do those, and so that will sort of inform how I’ll plan out the week.

So whether it’s a recipe that I’m working on for my website or New York Times Cooking, I usually have a period of research or thinking before I even cook where I will jot down my ideas about the dish and kind of even sketch out an outline of a recipe of what I think it will be. I find that that helps me be a lot more efficient than if I just go to the grocery store and get what ingredients I think I need and then play around. I think I’m a little bit of a chaotic person.

Bjork Ostrom: Sure. Which I think a lot of creators can relate to that. It’s-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah so-

Bjork Ostrom: … almost like… Yeah, yeah.

Lidey Heuck: Forcing myself to be organized about it. So on a typical day, I might, if I’m cooking and working on things that day, I’ll go to the store first thing, get what I need, print out kind of the draft of whatever the recipe is. Work on it for a while, and then take a break and do something to clear my head, whether that’s going for a walk or even just putzing around the house and getting something done just to get out of that mode. I feel like I like to do a lot of different things in each day just to like… I don’t know. I feel like it helps me with my creative process to jump around a little bit, which might sound counterintuitive.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah-

Lidey Heuck: And I-

Bjork Ostrom: … I think it was interesting, I just had a conversation with another creator recently, and that was part of it is variety is something that almost informs their creative process was being almost strategic in being to a certain degree unstructured. Not completely unstructured, but just not super rigid, I guess is maybe the approach. Yeah.

Lidey Heuck: Totally. Variety is the spice of life.

Bjork Ostrom: Yes.

Lidey Heuck: And I’m trying to think what else I’ll do. The other funny thing that I feel about when you’re writing recipes for a living is I’ll try to time it around meals often like, “Oh, I’ll work on this for dinner,” but then when it comes time to eat dinner, I’m not focused on it or I having a glass of wine. So for me, it’s got to be the recipe development part. I really have to be focused and I have to treat it like work. I can’t just treat it like I’m making dinner. There are two very different things in my mind, which is a weird distinction that I think happens when you start writing recipes for a living. You just think you’re in your recipe mode or you’re in, “Just throw it in the pot,” mode. And they are two different things.

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, right. And the amount of attention and detail required when you are in the recipe development stage is in extreme contrast to, “I need to create sustenance,” stage.

Lidey Heuck: Totally.

Bjork Ostrom: I need something that sustains me and it’s going to be good, but not going to pay attention to ingredients or steps or jot anything down. Just a very different mindset.

Lidey Heuck: It’s funny, just kind of in line with our earlier conversation about staying creative. I think one thing that I’ve found really helps me is to dedicate a few meals a week to just playing around with whatever I want to make and not using a recipe, not thinking about it, just like, I don’t know, goofing off. I think because it’s a little bit of the fun of cooking, it’s almost more like science when you’re doing a recipe and so you’re so focused. And I think remembering my original love of cooking and just having fun and giving myself the permission to make whatever weird concoction that I think sounds good that night, I don’t know, it’s always refreshing and it’s this source of inspiration. I don’t know how many recipes come from that, but it’s a good way to kind of reset after a week of being really focused.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, it’s like maybe this isn’t a completely fair comparison, but I think of a family friend who’s an artist, and I know that he does commissioned pieces and it feels like potentially what we are doing in the world of food content creation, it’s almost like comparable to commissioned recipe. Like, “Okay, this is what it is,” whether it’s for somebody else or for ourselves. You’re really intentional with it. There’s a specific outcome you want, and then you can just paint.

Lidey Heuck: Yes, exactly.

Bjork Ostrom: And I know he goes out and he just paints. And I would imagine that’s very different for him than doing a commissioned piece for somebody. And it’s technically the same thing that you’re doing, but it’s almost, your-

Lidey Heuck: Totally different.

Bjork Ostrom: … mindset when you’re doing it. Yeah, it’s very different.

Lidey Heuck: I also like the challenge of some of the recipes that I do for New York Times cooking are things that I’ve pitched, ideas I’ve pitched to them, and then some are assignments. They want to do a recipe for something in particular and they ask me if I’ll do it. And so even within that one job of doing recipes for them, they’re two very different kinds of projects, and I enjoy the ones that are assigned because it’s a different kind of challenge. It’s like taking this known thing and making a version of it that feels easy, delicious, satisfying, approachable, all of these things. It feels, I don’t know, it feels it’s very satisfying to do a recipe that I’m making my version of a thing that already exists.

And then on the other side of the coin is coming up with something that’s seasonally inspired and a little wacky and something that feels new, and that also has to fit in to the parameters of what they are looking for. And it’s got to be similarly doable and clearly written and everything. But there’s a little more freedom to play around. And I think the former kind keeps you on your toes and keeps you honing your craft because you are confined and constrained by these different rules. But it’s a good practice I think to be in and then to kind of apply that to the more creative recipes, I think helps those creative recipes still be really great recipes at their core.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. One of the things you had mentioned before was that you’d learned from Ina was this idea of the end product being something that has gone through multiple iterations to get to where it is. It’s like the recipe development process. And my guess is to some degree, there’s kind of filters that you are passing it through. Is this going to be something that people are going to be able to understand? Are these ingredients that people are going to be able to have access to? And even when you think of the topic for your book Cooking in Real Life, my guess is the kind of ethos of that is accessible recipes. What does that look like for you in terms of those filters that exist for you that you’d need an idea to pass through in order to get to the point where, either for publishing online or within the cookbook that you’re like, “Yep, this checks out. This made it through all of the checks along the way, or all the filters?”

Lidey Heuck: That’s a great question. I think for me, and I think this is mean, of course, it’s different for every person who writes recipes, but I think for me, it’s got to be streamlined and simple. There can’t be a million sauces. Maybe I’ll have one sub recipe for a sauce. But I think of my recipes as fitting into someone’s busy day and they’re delicious and there’s something special about them, but they’re not meant to be massive projects. So first and foremost, they just have to be simple. And that’s just a gut feeling that I have. Like is this something that’s easy enough that someone would really make it? And that’s a gut check, and totally the ingredients have to be accessible. I live in the rural Hudson Valley in New York, and I have not great access to grocery stores. And as I was writing this book, that was constantly a challenge that I came up against.

So remembering that we all live in a variety of places. And then I think, I don’t know, there’s just this feeling of is it good enough that I would want to make it again, or is there something memorable about this that makes it different from, let’s say I’ve got a green bean recipe in the book with crispy capers and garlic. And it’s a very simple recipe for sauteed green beans, but there’s something about those little crunchy fried capers that makes it way better than just steamed green beans. And so I think finding those little touches that can kind of elevate something very simple and turn it into something that you would be proud to serve to your family and friends or something that feels like a cohesive special dish. That me is what I am looking for in each recipe and kind of how I can tell the line between making something really simple that still feels exciting and new.

Bjork Ostrom: And is your hope to have that be, at least in this season, kind of the through line for all the recipes that you’re creating or-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I think-

Bjork Ostrom: And-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. And maybe in addition to that, was there anything that would be cookbook that wouldn’t be digital, and what is that balance between… Or maybe even what the question is, what’s the difference between producing one of those recipes online and publishing it versus the mindset with a cookbook? So two part question.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah. I think for me, the cookbook theme was these are going to be simple, delicious recipes. The tagline of the book is Delicious and Doable Recipes for Every Day. So that was kind of the main parameter for does a recipe idea fit into this book? And I think that’s really important for a cookbook to have a point of view, to have a theme. To have something that people can wrap their heads around and expect when they buy the book and then kind of deliver on that promise. What I like about sharing recipes online is I think there’s just a little bit more flexibility to do whatever kind of comes up and seems exciting at any given moment. And it doesn’t necessarily have to fit into this rubric of any one type of recipe. That’s for me at least, I think some people’s websites and blogs and social platforms are more specific, but mine is very much, as we said, it’s tied to my life, tied to the things I feel like cooking.

And so sometimes I do want a project and I feel like it’s okay to share that not everything has to be kind of fit neatly into these lines that it does for the cookbook. For example, I did… And I still, for the most part, my recipes are simple because I want them to be able to be made by cooks of all levels. But I also think it’s okay to share the occasional more project recipe if it inspires me. I did a pumpkin pie recipe a couple of years ago with a homemade pumpkin puree from a pumpkin, and I was a little unusual for me, I would usually just use canned pumpkin, but I was like, why not just give it a try? And it ended up doing really well because I think it’s something new that people aren’t used to seeing. So I think the experimentation element of sharing things online is a fun thing that I don’t think I would feel as free to do when I’m publishing something in a book that feels very permanent.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, it’s almost like the functionality is a little bit different. And I think there’s probably different versions of this within the world of cookbooks, but part of what we’re doing with producing content online is balancing functional with novel and story and trying to wrap all of those things into one, how’s it going to be unique, novel, interesting. What’s the story behind it? And if it’s the type of content you create, how is it actually going to be helpful and functional? And it feels like that’s always present challenge. It’s not easy. It’s be novel and convenient, I guess. Or maybe it is. I don’t know. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, well, I was also just thinking too, one major difference between someone finding a recipe online and someone deciding to buy a cookbook is the specificity of being able to find whatever you want online. You can have something that’s more niche and people will still search for it or still get to it. And when you want someone to buy your book, you’re sort of convincing them that they need it. And so I think having something that’s more broadly appealing in a book is necessary in a way that you don’t have to do online because there’s just the discovery element is so different.

But yeah, I think that is the ultimate challenge for recipe developers is balancing coming up with something new because we all know there are unlimited recipes that already exist. Coming up with something new, but something that’s not so crazy that you’re not going to make it. I think that’s the tension. And I think my sort of, I don’t know, north Star for doing that is just trusting my own instinct and what I want to eat and what I want to serve for my friends. And really taking my inspiration from the kinds of dishes I want to make in reality and sharing those with my online community rather than trying to come up with something that is going to hit all the metrics and be really unique. And then sort of thinking of it from a more formulaic way. I think if it comes from a real genuine like, “Oh, this sounds really good to me,” that’s the thing that also resonates with other people.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s great. I love that. I’m curious to know what it was like to kind of be involved in a TV show. It’s so different than anything we’ve ever done other than for Lindsay and I, There was maybe two or three times that we did the local morning news show. And somehow I get included and I’m stirring the muffin batter and they ask me questions, and somehow I end up talking about domain names and websites.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah. And it’s such a blur, and then it’s over and you’re like, “Oh my God, what did I just say?”

Bjork Ostrom: What did I do? And then it’s like live TV, which different than some of the TV shows that you’ve worked on. But the other thing that was interesting with it is after, number one, it’s just like families. That’s when people felt like, “Oh, you were on Fox 9 News in the Morning show. You’ve really made it now.” And they’re like, “Wow, you must’ve seen this huge jump in traffic.” And it’s like, “Of course, not at all.” But it’s just such a different world and even TV in general has changed over the last 10 years in terms of how people are consuming TV and where they’re consuming it. And so what was that experience like and is it something that you think you personally will pursue moving forward?

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I think going into it I… So when I was on The Lost Kitchen show, I had been on a couple episodes a really short cameo on Barefoot Contessa, barely stirring the muffin batter, if you will. And The Lost Kitchen show was, I’m not on in every scene, but I was on it a fair amount. And it is really a new skill to be, as you just said, doing anything on camera and trying to be yourself and not act all weird as soon as the cameras are on. I think that’s a really steep learning curve. And I have such an appreciation for actors and anyone who’s on TV who make it look so easy because I find it really difficult.

I think it’s one of those things where just with repetition, you just get more comfortable doing it. And I’ve never done it enough to get to that point, but it’s fun. And I don’t know, I think at the end of the day, whether it’s videos on social media or TV, video is the medium and that’s what people connect with. And so I think being on doing Instagram Reels and those short form videos, it’s all similar to TV and just getting more comfortable and pretending the camera’s not there. For me, I was also learning how to work in a restaurant when I was on The Lost Kitchen Show.

And I think that comes across if you watch it, that I don’t really know what I’m doing. So I think I just sort of leaned into that. I’m just going to try to get through my day and try to do these tasks and have a little bit of comedic relief about the whole thing. It was also during Covid when, it was during 2020 when that season of The Lost Kitchen was filmed, so this is getting into the nitty-gritty of it, but we had to wear masks whenever we were inside. And then that was a whole other element, so you can’t really see anyone’s facial expression-

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, which is such a huge limiter on some of the things. Yeah.

Lidey Heuck: And I remember that being a challenge, knowing by the time the show came out, hopefully we wouldn’t be in a masked situation, but also obviously having to respect all of the CDC recommendations. So it was a particular challenge to try to be compelling on camera with just the eyes.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, totally. Right. As somebody who’s kind of also learning how to do it in general and what a complex thing that is. So when you think of the different platforms that you could create on, people can pursue a TV, they can pursue a cookbook, you can pursue building a following online, you can pursue a blog, YouTube, whatever it is. And the podcast is like, we talk about it within the context of Food Blogger Pro, but really it’s like creators. It’s like how are people going to show up and create in the world and build a following, speak to people, change lives, whatever it might be. For you, having experienced a lot of those different worlds, what do you feel like, well, I guess the question is how do you feel like you are going to move forward as a creator, and where do you anticipate spending most of your time?

Lidey Heuck: Oh, that’s a big question. For now, my book has just come out and my goal this year really is to keep ramping up my social platforms and doing video and recipe content. One thing that I have toyed with now for I feel like a year, and I still haven’t taken the plunge on, is a Substack newsletter or any kind of newsletter.

And it’s something I’m hesitant about because I feel like putting everything behind a paywall I already have, much of the work I do is behind a paywall with New York Times cooking. And I want to be accessible to people. And I haven’t yet come to a conclusion about how to, I don’t know about what to do because I think Substack are really great. There are so many of them now, and I worry a little bit that it too late to get into it, or people have sort of reached their max on how many they’re subscribing to. And I’ve just felt that that’s a really big commitment to showing up for that audience in addition to growing on the more public side of things, on social media, all of the free content. So I wish I had a really concrete answer besides, I’m just figuring it out, but I think-

Bjork Ostrom: Which is great.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, I think that’s another reason why I’m interested in having a retail or a brick and mortar business or some other sort of side to my business is because I think it’s a difficult industry to be in, and there is a lot of competition, and I think having something that feels very tangible in addition to creating media feels like a nice way to have more solid footing going forward.

Bjork Ostrom: Totally. There’s something really reassuring about having some diversification within your business and whether that be, in your case, like a retail shop, and that’s the thing, but it’s also super beneficial if it’s also content. I don’t know to what degree this would be true for you, but it feels like with what you do and the type of content that you create, that there could be a little bit of the Venn diagram overlap of you have a retail shop, but that also allows you to tell stories or to feature a product. Those two things being complimentary, not mutually exclusive feels like a great thing in that it also then provides some diversification with what income or whatever it might be.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, absolutely. And I also think that both of those businesses can create inspiration for each other because having things that I’m making or selling can then influence the content. And then the content, the beautiful dishes that I like to use for my recipes can then sort of be an influence for the store. I think that there’s a really nice relationship between those two things, and I also think it’s just a way to do something that feels personal to me. And I think, as you said, one of the reasons that we follow the people we follow is because we’re interested in what they’re interested in. And so I think beyond just sort of the influencer model of linking out to other websites, why not find a way of making that sort of part of my business where I can curate things and recommend things that I really love and be much more directly involved in that than just linking in my bio, so to speak.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. Yep. That’s great. Well, we’ll have to have you back on after you launch-

Lidey Heuck: Yes absolutely.

Bjork Ostrom: … your store.

Lidey Heuck: Absolutely.

Bjork Ostrom: We can hear what that process was like. Lidey, in the meantime, if people want to follow along with you, what you’re up to, what’s the best way to do that, and then we’ll include a link to the cookbook as well in our show notes. So can you let us know where the best place to pick that up would be-

Lidey Heuck: Yeah, absolutely.

Bjork Ostrom: … and we’ll link to that.

Lidey Heuck: My Instagram account is LideyLikes, which is my name, L-I-D-E-Y and L-I-K-E-S and that is also my website, and I send out a weekly little newsletter where I have anything that’s coming up with events and new recipes. So that’s definitely the best way to stay in touch and get any news about my big project that I’m now committed to.

Bjork Ostrom: Love it. Yep. Publicly.

Lidey Heuck: Yeah. I’ve gone on the record, now I really have to do it.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, exactly. Lidey, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story. I really appreciate it.

Lidey Heuck: Thanks for having me. This was a really fun conversation. I’m really inspired. I feel like I need to go find my snack taste test, whatever that is.

Bjork Ostrom: Love it. Sounds good. Thanks, Lidey.

Emily Walker: Hey there. This is Emily from the Food Blogger Pro team. Thank you so much for listening to that episode of the Food Blogger Pro Podcast. I wanted to take a minute and just ask that if you enjoyed this episode or any of our other many episodes of the Food Blogger Pro podcast, that you share it. It means so much to us as a podcast if you share episodes with your friends and family, or if you are food blogger or entrepreneur, if you could share them on social media or even in your email newsletters. It really helps us get the word out about our podcast and reach more listeners. Thanks again for listening. We really hope you enjoyed this episode, and we’ll see you back here next week.