Tiny Bites: How Can Food Creators Succeed in a World with AI?

Emily Walker: Hey, there, this is Emily from The Food Blogger Pro team, and you are listening to Tiny Bites from The Food Blogger Pro Podcast. In this episode of Tiny Bites, Bjork is interviewing Jeff Coyle from MarketMuse, and they’re chatting all about how food creators can succeed in a world with AI. We’ve had a few recent podcast episodes about AI, but there’s always more to talk about because it’s always changing, and Jeff and Bjork will be chatting about creating content and SEO in a world with AI. They discuss how you can create AI-proof content, or whatever that means at this point in time, and specific tips and tricks you should use when creating content and things you just need to keep in mind to make content that can help you stand out amongst the crowd, both from other food creators and AI-generated content. It’s a really thought-provoking and useful episode.

I know food creators and, really, everyone will get a lot out of it. Again, head to the show notes at foodbloggerpro.com for more information, links, and details about the episode, and until then, just enjoy this episode with Bjork and Jeff.

Bjork Ostrom: Jeff Coyle, welcome to the podcast.

Jeff Coyle: Hi, how are you? What’s going on?

Bjork Ostrom: Good. Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: Good.

Bjork Ostrom: We’re going to talk about all things AI today, and you’re the perfect person to talk about it because you are the co-founder of MarketMuse. You built essentially the thing that everybody was like, “Oh my gosh, this is crazy, generative AI.” MarketMuse built a version of that before everybody knew about AI. I mean, is that generally correct?

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, absolutely. So we built and launched a large language model technology long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away. It was just at a time where it cost way too much to build it and way too much to manage it for a company that we were, and we realized that technology was going to have to catch up in order to do these things. We had built pieces of this type of technology since our inception, now, a little bit under 10 years. So we were building natural language processing components, which basically means you can analyze texts and do stuff with it, which is the basis of a lot of this, so being able to understand what it means to be an expert on a topic, being able to parse texts properly, know whether it’s the context it’s in, the intent it has.

All those steps come to usability and fruition with these types of experiences that we’re seeing today, but yeah. We’ve been about two years ahead of the market every time, which doesn’t always mean things go extremely well-

Bjork Ostrom: Right, right, right.

Jeff Coyle: And so we’re on the bleeding edge and bleeding a whole lot.

Bjork Ostrom: Gotcha. But point with it is like you’ve been in this world a long time. You know trends, you know where things are going, you know the search world on a really deep level, and that’s why I’m excited to talk to you about kind of the relation of content, search, and AI. This is a space you’re very familiar with, MarketMuse, this incredible technology that you’ve built. I was thinking specifically about our friend who has a site that they started to use MarketMuse, and they went from four million page views to 40 million page views, like this incredible story, but you’ve seen journeys like that. You’ve walked alongside people like that, and my guess is you’ve also been able to look inside of sites that have been impacted by changes that happen within the industry, and then suddenly, things aren’t working well for them.

And so you have this really unique insight into a lot of different content businesses and expertise around AI, content, and search, and one of the things that I think is really worrisome for people right now is AI, generative content, like this idea that you can go to Bard or ChatGPT and say, “I’m looking for a chocolate chip recipe,” and then it manifests a recipe, and that would’ve been somebody who would’ve gone to your site in the past. So is that true? Are we doomed? What does the future look like if you look into the crystal ball?

Jeff Coyle: Well, certainly for food, the impact of food bloggers, the impact of brands in the food industry, restaurants, all those … Everybody is impacted. Everybody will be impacted or has already been impacted. The reason that it’s not something that should be a like, “Oh gosh, this is going to cause us complete damage,” is because if you’re providing tremendous value already and you are consistent with that value, you’ve worked on your brand, you’ve built trust, you illustrate expertise, you have a leg up on people that haven’t. So if you are in the world where you are trying to cut corners or you haven’t put a lot of energy into this, it’s going to be more difficult because of the situation, like you mentioned, with a chocolate chip recipe. There’s a lot of different ways that the chocolate chip recipe is going to be impacted, and I’ve actually-

Bjork Ostrom: Absolutely.

Jeff Coyle: Not that example, but used a generic example, where I think it was chicken noodle soup, right? It’s a thing. It’s this abstract thing. It’s the chocolate chip cookie. How do you make your chocolate chip cookie recipe special? The answer to that question isn’t very different than it was a year ago, two years ago, five years ago.

Bjork Ostrom: What do you mean by that?

Jeff Coyle: You always really had to hack you behind it. There had to be some credibility. You had to be exhibiting expertise. You had to be illustrating that for one reason or another, your chocolate chip cookie recipe had something special, was bringing something more to the world. I think it’s a really great metaphor for what search engines are expecting. But it’s a two-sided debate here, because you’re looking at all the people creating content in the world, and then you’re looking at now, search engines are creating-

Bjork Ostrom: Creating content.

Jeff Coyle: That’s right, and it’s a different type of … There’s a second battle happening in the case where it’s-

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. It’s not just you competing … Yeah. You’re not just competing against another creator for a spot, you’re now also competing against a search engine, potentially. What I hear you saying is the best way to do that is to not be generic, like to not be plain vanilla.

You have expertise, you’ve established trust, and so when I think of, in our space, and I don’t know if you felt this generally across all different categories, but there was a little bit of a trend towards like, “Just give people the recipe.” All the people wanted the recipe. Essentially, kind of strip yourself out of it. Give content that is informational essentially, like answers the facts. I was always hesitant about that because it felt like what you’re doing is you’re reducing yourself to a piece of information that is competing against other pieces of information, and instead of introducing yourself and making yourself a really important component, and that being the variable, which is like, I mean, one you can control in a much more significant way, which is like you, as a human, and your expertise, your credibility, and even, if not for expertise and credibility, your connection with a reader or somebody who follows you and trust that comes with that connection.

So my question for you is, “How do you balance those two things? How do you give people the information, but then also make your humanness found within the content in a way, especially in our world, that doesn’t feel like, ‘Oh, you’re just telling me a random story that I don’t need to hear’?”

Jeff Coyle: Well, I think it’s being a marketer at the same time as you are a creator. And I’ve spoken with a lot of teams about this, or even an educator and a marketer at the same time, speaking with a lot of teams with recipe sites, food sites, brands, and that is where kind of it lands. But the one thing also is, “Is your plain vanilla recipe card, is it an instant answer?” Right? “Does it provide all the context?,” because that’s what we’re going to start seeing, and we’re already seeing it with Search Generative Experience, which if you haven’t seen it, you’re on a search results page, it asks you if you want to generate a text, or it already provides that.

It may show you some steps and ingredients, right? My-

Bjork Ostrom: So point being, like you’re on Google, you search for a recipe, and it’s like, “Would you like to see this recipe here?”

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. Almost-

Bjork Ostrom: Like it builds it all within the search result page.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. They’ll give citations now, but a featured snippet would be they’re actually providing a chunk of the page for you to click on. There’s another view, which is actually, it’s generating text from sources and citing them, but my debate has always been, “Is a recipe, is a great meal or dish that you make, is that an instant answer? Is that an instant answer type recipe?” I think that there are types of recipes that could be that, right?

So the ratio for simple syrup, it’s pretty much everybody’s got the same one, right? That’s your kind of apple pie and basics, but apple pie is very different, right?

Bjork Ostrom: Sure.

Jeff Coyle: Chocolate chips, there’s a lot of different ones. There is unique value to having that perspective and detailed. Can you go overboard? Sure. I mean, I think there was backlash to there being a thousand-word opus, and it making no sense, or they’re being low quality, but establishing your credibility through storytelling and writing content on all stages of the buyer journey, that’s being a good marketer and an educator.

So if you know something about a ingredient and things that people don’t know, you providing that context, mistakes people make, fast tips for doing this in maybe a different way, substitutions, if you are really providing unique value, you’re providing it multiple learning methods, a visual cues, audio cues, you got to do a lot of work, but you’re really separating yourself and you’re building your image. You want to get to the point where someone will trust your recipe by just a recipe card. If I get a Jeff Hertzberg bread recipe, I don’t have to think about it. I just say, “I’m going to follow it to the nose, and it’s going to come out really well.” But you don’t just get there overnight, and so you got to be … I think Google, as well as we, all have to recognize we aren’t there maybe, and if there is the possibility of providing unique value, cleverly doing that is still going to be the best practice.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. It’s almost like it’s not just, “How do you figure out a recipe and deliver that?,” it’s also, “How do you, within that, position yourself and the recipe?,” or, “How do you market it?” So like, “How do you convince people that you’re the best person to give them that recipe, and this recipe is the best answer to their question of like chicken noodle soup? Like what’s the best chicken noodle soup?” Is that kind of what you’re saying?

Jeff Coyle: Absolutely. You heard me speak at a conference recently, and something that I mentioned in the round table the day before was, “Do not fake authenticity,” because that is where there’s going to be the heaviest hand from the search engines. If you try to project that you have this experience, or if you’re weaving yourself into the story and that story is not legitimate, it’s only going to take one small infraction for your trust to evaporate. So if you’re telling a story about your mom grew up in the hills of Tuscany, and she gave you this recipe, and then in another story, you’re talking about how your mom grew up in Ireland, and she gave you this recipe and you’re the same person, over time, that’s going to cause some chaos for you, and so being authentic is going to be the future of everything we do.

Bjork Ostrom: How much of that is tied back to an individual? Is the idea here that a search engine, we’ll use Google in this case, is able to track you as a author and a creator and build kind of a comprehensive understanding of who you are, and therefore, how authentic and the level of trust that Google, as a search engine should put in you?

Jeff Coyle: You, as an entity, as a publisher, as a corporation, as an individual, as a group of individuals who will legitimately make claims, and facts, and present data, yeah, absolutely. It’s not necessarily worth it to go down the rabbit hole of exactly how-

Bjork Ostrom: Sure. How, but-

Jeff Coyle: But combinations of links to you, the original methods for calculating authoritativeness were heavily skewed towards the link graph and how that presented topic site section level authoritativeness, and it’s a great way of understanding the world, right?

Bjork Ostrom: Yep.

Jeff Coyle: And as systems got it, as it became easier to analyze text, clarity, sentiment, expertise, and build all those things, that all built up. So years and years ago, and I just use this as a short anecdote, Google attempted to do kind of author-level assessment and rolled it out their system. It is one of those things where it was a little bit hack and slash. It wasn’t perfect-

Bjork Ostrom: Rolled it out, meaning, they tried to do it, and it didn’t really work, so then they stopped doing it. Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: It really didn’t. They stopped it, and then now, what you’re seeing is it has a trend back to that, because they know that that will be very important, and they have to keep working on that. They have to keep working on credibility because we’re in a world where the supply of content just went to infinity, so the collective mind-

Bjork Ostrom: Because of generative AI, like-

Jeff Coyle: Because of generative AI. Yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: You could create as many … There could be 10 million articles created today on a certain topic, and they’d all be a little bit different, but generally the same and from generative AI.

Jeff Coyle: And so the challenge is if that is true and there are commodity recipes, and let’s just say there’s hundred million chocolate chip cookie recipes get posted to the web tomorrow, how can a search engine do its job? And that’s where … Not that I’m being empathetic for the situation, what I’m saying, “What will be the deciding factor?,” that’s where your head’s got to be. It’s going to be, “Okay. Well, yeah, if there’s a hundred million commodity chocolate chip cookie recipes, why would I think mine’s special?”

Bjork Ostrom: And you have to have that mindset because that’s going to be the mindset of a search engine is, “Why is this one special?” So functionally speaking, what does that look like? Like you’re creating a site, you’re creating a post. How do you do that? Like how do you communicate trust and expertise?

Jeff Coyle: I think you are thoughtful for your audience, right? You’re thoughtful that … I’ve looked at heat maps, wayfinding, which is a fancy way of saying clicking. I’ve looked at these on so many recipe sites and so many food brands that have recipe sections. They also have lifestyle and recipe. There’s a blend of certain situations, and great majority of people do wish to read these things, all the contrarians on Twitter-

Bjork Ostrom: Yes, totally. 100%. Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: And they’re like, “These are terrible. Just send me …” Okay. Well, for those people, provide access to the recipe.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: You want that recipe card? Make sure it’s easy for them to get to, make sure that that’s accessible, but also, education is critical. I mean, if I’m teaching someone how to … And I love cooking, right? I’m really into cooking all different types of stuff.

Bjork Ostrom: Yup. Have a beer company that you’ve launched-

Jeff Coyle: I own a beer brewery.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: Most people don’t know that, but I own a beer brewery in Georgia, Brunswick, Georgia, Silver Bluff Brewing Company, so I’m really into ingredients and quality. I make pizza, I make bread, a lot of bread and stuff, so I’m super into it, and so providing videos, providing quality imagery that illustrates that you have actually made this, right? You’re not just writing out, providing unique context. I always liked the example of when I watch transcript of my own, this podcast, what was I thinking? If I’m the person …

If it was you, could I add a little bit of value to each section? So even when you just make a video, could you go through that and even add more value? “Oh, well, you know, when you’re making caramel, make sure that you don’t do these five things or whatever. If you’re making naan, and you’re trying to do it on the same day, here’s the things that you need to make sure of, or else you’re beat,” right?

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: And so those are the things that are going to add unique value and set you apart. The tough part about that is, if someone chooses to distill your value down to a recipe, what is your recourse? And I’m asking myself the question because that’s one that I’ve been thinking about today. It’s, “What would I do if someone tried to distill one of my beer recipes down to six bullets, and how would I feel about that, and what would be the manner of … How would I deal with that? What would I do to present that?,” and I think that that’s the question everybody’s kind of got to deal with right now.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. Point being, and this is something that we talk about a decent amount, but probably not enough as it relates to search, is one of the best ways to do well in the world of search is to understand the technical components, as you should. What does it look like to structure a site well, to have appropriately sized web cord, vital … Like all of this stuff do that, but ultimately, what we are trying to do is we’re trying to think about, “How do people be as successful as possible with what they’re trying to do when they come to our content and experience our content and interact with it?” And ultimately, you can push back on this if you feel like it’s incorrect, that’s what a search engine is trying to do, is help people be successful with the thing they are trying to do, and in our case, in our world, it’s make a recipe well.

And so what does it look like to walk people through that? The hard part is it depends. Some people like step-by-step photos. Some people like a video. Some people need a ton of background on the why, or they’re at least interested in it.

Other people just want the recipe card, and I hear you touching on that a little bit, which is like it has to be comprehensive. Does that feel accurate?

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, it is. Absolutely, and that’s from experience as well. I mean, it’s the part that’s, it’s painful that it has to be. I think that the food blogging community, and the recipes and food brands, and beverage brands had to get that religion sooner than other companies and other industries, and they’re in that process now. So B2B technology companies, for example, they’re years away of having gotten that religion, that they actually have to satisfy all the industries, and they have to have audio, and video, and they have to teach, as well as market, but food bloggers, they’re ahead of the game here because they’ve had to be there because their stuff had to be accessible to all different types of learners earlier than other groups, and so I do think that that’s why they’re often used.

I’ll give you a little bit of a … It’s also because the metaphor that’s frequently used for natural language processing is that topic model is a set of ingredients.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: So it’s very easy to connect the dots between these things, you know?

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. Point being, people understand that when you’re like, “Hey, you’re looking for a thing, and generative AI can do a good job of manifesting those things and giving those to you.” It’s also a good opportunity to paint the picture of like the gap that it still exists between going somewhere that’s somebody’s an authority. Like you talked about bread, I think of Maurizio, who we interviewed on the podcast. He has a site called The Perfect Loaf.

I know if I’m going to try and make a sourdough bread, I’m going to be more successful spending my time on The Perfect Loaf than I am right now using Bard and saying, “Give me a sourdough recipe,” and it’s because of all of those things that you’re talking about that are wrapped around it.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. I love that example, and it’s to say also is the collective mind of all the chocolate chip cookies in the world, the output that I want.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: I think that’s where it’s really going to be interesting. Then, the question then becomes is, “Is that the thing that Google will show me?,” because what they’re doing is not, so there’s a little bit of a misconception of if you’re asking a large language model to create a chocolate chip cookie recipe, that’s different than what you see in the Search Generative Experience. The Search Generative Experience is trying to grab chunks of text and information and siped them, almost like a buffet, buffet of chunks, and trying to present them in a logical way, and wrap that information up. So I think you have a lot of options for generating and interpreting the collective world. A large language model is giving you the collective genius of some set of websites, but is that truly how people are going to present them to you? So I think you have a yin and a yang, who you’re defending against here.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, in the two different scenarios. One being like a ChatGPT, which generally speaking, is going to be thousands of sources averaged versus the Search Generative Experience, and I think that might be a new phrase for people, but what you’re talking about there is within Google, it’s a type of search result that kind of builds an answer. And what you’re saying with that is it’s usually going to be a collection of a handful of sources as opposed to thousands and averaged out.

Jeff Coyle: Perfectly said, yeah. Just imagine if they took the best snippets from five articles that represented their view of expertise, and then they presented that right there. They’ve previously had what they call featured snippets, which is one site, that’s a block, or … I’m generalizing it, but they’re smushing together what they believe presents a QuickBook report, as it were, and then some of those are getting into steps of a recipe, as I’ve seen as of today officially, so …

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. Can you think of a prompt off the top of your head that would trigger … I know this stuff changes day by day, but so if people wanted to-

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. I was looking at one 10 minutes before we recorded, and if you have Labs activated, Google Labs activated, and you typed in caramel apples recipe, you should see a SGE or some similar ones. So that was one where I was looking at it just recently because I was explaining to someone explicitly how that worked and why they shouldn’t be worried about it.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, because they’ve been thinking about this for quite some time, and you may have different experiences with your Labs set up.

Bjork Ostrom: Sure.

Jeff Coyle: But I want to say that it’s Google Labs, and if you haven’t applied for that, if you’re listening, it’s one minute, you submit a form, and then you get access to some of these special experiences.

Bjork Ostrom: Early-

Jeff Coyle: Right.

Bjork Ostrom: Yep. That’s awesome. That’s a great takeaway for folks who would want to check it out. It’s super helpful, and I think one of the big takeaways that I had from that conference that we were at and the talk that you gave was this idea of the importance of the expert. I think some people are like, “Wait, it doesn’t matter anymore if I’m an expert because Google and AI are going to be the expert, and they’re going to be able to replace me,” but what you’re saying is actually, it kind of superpowers you as the expert because now, you are more valuable than ever, but the key is you actually need to be an expert.

You can’t be somebody who’s just like really good at mass-producing content because that’s kind of gone away, and so it feels like the shift that has happened is a shift towards true expertise of the individual creating the content. Number one, my question would be, “Does that feel like an accurate representation of kind of the landscape right now?”

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, absolutely. It is that. There’s going to be some clunky things that happen and helpful content, the helpful content update, which is Google assessing your entire site at the site level for how good content is in their eyes. This Search Generative Experience, which is their ability to provide interesting observations about your recipe could be woven in, but in the end, yes, it’s another battleground for search. It’s an additional chunk of real estate for you to win.

Bjork Ostrom: Sure.

Jeff Coyle: And so the best sites, you’re going to be able to be there, you’re going to be able to have your regular result, potentially a recipe result. So I like to view it as this is just yet another type of search result. And over time, will they merge to one? Perhaps, but it’s definitely changed the way I think about what could happen and really focused me on recognizing that in the end, yes, the true expertise is going to battle. It’s not as simple as it used to be, but if you know the general recipe and you know the basic recipe, and you know why yours is unique, if you have tips for a particular recipe, if you’re providing unique value, those things are going to provide a lot of value for you over time.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah. Sure.

Jeff Coyle: By the way, I remembered one of the ones I was looking at.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: If you have SGE activated and you did chocolate chip cookies recipe, you’re probably not going to see it, but if you type easy chocolate chip cookies recipe, you will see it.

Bjork Ostrom: Oh, that’s interesting.

Jeff Coyle: So they’re doing some interesting things with intent, and so that’s interesting, yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: Interesting. And again, in order to see that, you need to make sure that Labs is activated so you can see kind of some of these early things that Google is testing.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: So the second question that I’d have related to some of the expertise, this wouldn’t be pertinent for us, at least on Pinch of Yum, but for those who are working with contributors, like other people who are creating the content, is it just essentially the same thing that applies? Let’s say you have five authors who are publishing. You need to make sure that those authors are truly an expert on the thing that they’re publishing content about, because on a site level, you’re going to be assessed as like, “How authoritative is your site?,” and so if you have one person who’s writing about health related stuff and they don’t have the credibility for that, then that’s an issue.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. I mean, on the nose, what I’m recommending to teams in their operation steps is to make sure that the writer, either in your … If you’re sending briefs out or requests for, and you’re the expert, and you’re having somebody else write, you’re including your unique values, so the points of differentiation, point of view. Make sure you lean into these concepts, why they’re doing it, or if you’re leaving that obligation to the writer, they should be submitting those back with their draft, so somewhere-

Bjork Ostrom: So you, the expert?

Jeff Coyle: Yeah.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: It depends on who’s the expert and who’s doing the review. That’s the easiest way to get to this point because a lot of people just write, and I’m totally cool with that, right? Yeah, sure. You have to know what unique differentiated value you bring, and if you need to force that step because you have lots of contributors, ask for it, if it’s their obligation, and then if it’s not, if it’s your obligation, include it in your request.

Bjork Ostrom: Sure. Then, are you then including your name? Are you including the expert’s name in the byline of the article, reviewed by-

Jeff Coyle: Yeah. For sure.

Bjork Ostrom: I’ve seen that, like article reviewed by da, da, da, da, da, like written by this person, reviewed and fact-checked, or whatever by this person.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, absolutely. Thinking of the trail of evidence, as I’ve heard it called internally at a large publishing company, but if you’re representing an admin or a group of writers, that doesn’t disqualify you here. You just have to explain it and say, “Yeah, we have seven people,” their names. “These are them over time. They’ve been part of this community. These are the current team members.”

Explain why you represent yourself as cool cup staff, you know?

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: Just make sure that you’re communicating authentically, and that’s going to be fair and appropriate enough for you to have success, so …

Bjork Ostrom: That’s great. That’s great. We could talk about this for probably three hours, but these are supposed to be short episodes. My guess is coming out of this, Jeff, there’ll be people who are interested in MarketMuse, interested in connecting with you. Obviously, you have a deep wealth of knowledge around this.

Interested in checking out the brewery. You can do a little shout-out for that, if people live in the area or visiting. But can you give a little bit of an insight into how you work with creators? MarketMuse, talk about that a little bit, because this is a tool that’s built to help people who listen to the podcast and how people can follow along with you as well.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, so sure. You can email me [email protected]. I’m active on LinkedIn and Twitter, Jeffrey_Coyle on the X, Twitter, and then also LinkedIn. Feel free to shoot me a connection. Mention the podcast.

MarketMuse really helps teams who are publishing to learn what they should be creating, where they have gaps, and then how much … I like to say it’s the what, why, and the how much for content. So, “What should I be making?,” “Why?,” “What data is telling me that?,” and, “How much should I be creating?,” and then we take it all the way down to execution. So we have technology that will evaluate your existing recipes and give you insights about whether they are representing expertise, give you insights about potentially areas where they could be improved. We’ve just released a AI assistant that uses our technology in the background, so it provides more comprehensive outlining than any other product on the market right out of the gate, and we can work with you if you’re a one-person shop with a blog all the way up to, kind of we work with some of the largest publishers and food and food brands in the world, but please do that. Then, if you go to silverbluff.com, we ship to 44 states-

Bjork Ostrom: All right.

Jeff Coyle: Including District of Columbia, three of our products, and yeah, our Mexican Lager has won the U.S. Open World Beer Cup.

Bjork Ostrom: Award-winning.

Jeff Coyle: Silver medals in both, and we just got notice. We won Beer of the Year from the Brewski 2023, this morning. You’re the first person I-

Bjork Ostrom: Wow, breaking news on The Food Blogger Pro Podcast.

Jeff Coyle: So if you’re a fan of any IPA’s, Double IPA’s, or Mexican Lager’s, we have those three available, and then if you’re swinging on I–95, passing through Georgia, make a stop there.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s awesome. It’s just a through-line of excellence in everything you do, Jeff, whether it’s a beer or like SEO and search software.

Jeff Coyle: I try my best.

Bjork Ostrom: So thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

Jeff Coyle: Hey, for sure, and I appreciate it, and awesome questions. I’ll put one last note. If you have been impacted by changes, if you are providing unique value, don’t lose hope.

Bjork Ostrom: Yeah.

Jeff Coyle: Reach out. There are communities of people going through this. I’m one of those people, but it might not be fixable today, it might not be fixable this month, but if you were providing value, it will be a path. There will be a path, and I know. I’ve heard it a number of times, especially in this space, where I know you’re putting your heart and soul into those sites, and there are cavs, so just know that.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s awesome.

Jeff Coyle: There are people who are thinking about this, and a lot of them are willing to talk to you about it.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s great.

Jeff Coyle: Yeah, and so to do that, take advantage of this awesome community.

Bjork Ostrom: That’s really cool. Thanks. We’ve had those conversations with people who are in the middle of that, and it’s like extremely discouraging, but extremely encouraging to know that others are going through it. You have a change, and it affects your traffic, which affects your income, which affects your life, but a great reminder to keep after it, and there are people willing to help, like yourself, so thanks, Jeff. Really appreciate it, and thanks for coming on.

Jeff Coyle: Hey, take it easy. See you.

Emily Walker: And that’s it for this episode of Tiny Bites by The Food Blogger Pro Podcast. We really hope you enjoyed that episode. Again, head to the show notes to learn more, and we will see you next time.